Discussion:
.NET 1.1 SP 1 with D2005?
(too old to reply)
Jennifer Ashley Kuiper
2004-10-23 09:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Can I now safely install SP1 prior to installing D2005? (provided of course
I don't want to continue working with D8)

Thanks,
Jenn
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-26 19:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jennifer Ashley Kuiper
Can I now safely install SP1 prior to installing D2005? (provided of
course I don't want to continue working with D8)
D2005 works w/ .NET 1.1 SP1. I'm using it and XP SP2 on my notebook.

Also, there *will* be a patch for D8 that resolves this issue as well.
As Danny has said, it is not a simplistic patch.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Thomas Miller
2004-10-26 19:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Would it be easier to give everyone what bought D8 and extra $500
discount for 90 days to upgrade to Diamond Back. Give it away
to those that bought Pro.
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Post by Jennifer Ashley Kuiper
Can I now safely install SP1 prior to installing D2005? (provided of
course I don't want to continue working with D8)
D2005 works w/ .NET 1.1 SP1. I'm using it and XP SP2 on my notebook.
Also, there *will* be a patch for D8 that resolves this issue as well.
As Danny has said, it is not a simplistic patch.
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork

http://www.bss-software.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-26 23:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Miller
Would it be easier
No.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-28 08:31:09 UTC
Permalink
No.
The more I read your posts, the more I dislike you.
I think that you should reconsider your attitude towards loyal Borland
customers.

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Thomas Miller
2004-10-28 14:39:47 UTC
Permalink
John and I are old friends (at least I think we still are) and
we have frank discussions all the time. So if it were someone
else, I would have been offended for that person. Please don't
for me. If you see my track record here in the forums, I can
take care of myself, but I do appreciate the thought.

And I should have asked Danny that question. I am sure he would
prefer working on .Net 2 stuff that needs to be released this
summer then programming this fix. Of course, the short term
cost difference would be a negative. The long term benefits
of happy customers would be a positive.

I think Borland has become very short sighted in everything it
does (it does what it does for stock price reasons, not for
happy customers).
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
No.
The more I read your posts, the more I dislike you.
I think that you should reconsider your attitude towards loyal Borland
customers.
Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork

http://www.bss-software.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
2004-10-29 01:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Miller
I think Borland has become very short sighted in everything it
does (it does what it does for stock price reasons, not for
happy customers).
I agree.

I don't want to kick Borland anymore when they're down,
I have no doubt they are working feverishly to fix this
particular problem, if for no other reason than just to eliminate
threads like this in the newsgroups -:), but the real shame in this IMHO
is the after shocks of the handling of the entire D8 situation, much more so
than this particular problem itself. For most certainly
there will be other problems and issues with D8 and with D2005 as well,
but this pattern of handling a crisis can create long lasting
negative effects that go far beyond the problem itself.

Here's a recent example of how another major company
handled a crisis.

Paypal administration was down for about 12 hrs the other day,
so what did they do, they sent an email to all their customers apologizing
for the inconvenience, thanking them for their business and reimbursing
all it's fees incurred on their customer's sales for that down period.
Did they have to do it, of course not, but they did it to breed good will and
customer loyalty. It's the smart and logical thing to do.

I realize this isn't an apples to apples comparison with the D8 situation, but
I think one could safely conclude that if Borland was/is willing to offer
discounts/upgrades to 2005 for D8 customers that they too could
breed good will and customer loyalty and that it could be the the smart
and logical thing to do.

Kevin
Billb
2004-10-28 15:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
No.
The more I read your posts, the more I dislike you.
I think that you should reconsider your attitude towards loyal Borland
customers.
Do you prefer the warm fuzzies with your no?
Captain Jake
2004-10-28 18:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
No.
The more I read your posts, the more I dislike you.
LOL. And whether or not you like JK is relevant how?
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-28 18:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
I think that you should reconsider your attitude towards loyal
Borland customers.
Since you misunderstand my "attitude towards loyal Borland customers" I
don't think there's anything for me to reconsider.

If I didn't care about Borland customers, I wouldn't bother posting
here. Perhaps you can factor that into your dislike of my direct and
honest replies and come up with a new view. If not, I suggest you set
your newsgroup reader to ignore my posts, since your misunderstanding
of my participation here isn't going to prevent me from posting and I
wouldn't want you to keep being upset by your projection of attitude
onto my posts.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Jason Southwell
2004-10-29 21:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
I think that you should reconsider your attitude towards loyal
Borland customers.
Since you misunderstand my "attitude towards loyal Borland customers"
I don't think there's anything for me to reconsider.
You have to admit that you do often come across as very abrasive.
Those of us that know you know that you are under attack quite often in
this newsgroup and understand the curt or abrasive replies, but for the
newbie, I can understand the reaction.
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-29 21:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Southwell
You have to admit that you do often come across as very abrasive.
Yes, I do know that some people read my terse replies as abrasive.

There is a vast difference between terseness and abrasiveness.
Unfortunately, many people only become terse when they are being
abrasive, so they assume that if someone else is terse, it is because
they are also trying to be abrasive, or are upset.

Most of the time I'm terse because I'm trying to answer a question
quickly and move on to other things. Then, I get labeled abrasive or
upset, and have to spend time asking people to read my reply w/o
getting emotions tangled up into it. Or, I choose not to reply because
I don't have time for a long, flowery response like this one, and then
people complain about me ignoring them.

My options are these:

1) Don't participate here, don't answer any questions
2) Answer quickly, and once someone who knows me, knows business, or
knows what Borland is doing, sees my "lead" they can fill in the
nuances I rarely have time to fill in
3) Answer about one question a week in detail because I'm "donating"
time I don't really have to be here and I won't have time for more
writing than that
4) Just answer, when I have time, with a blog entry or BDN article and
let someone who reads my blog put my answer here. Greatly increased
latency this way.

I fluctuate among all these at various times based on what other things
I have to deliver for Borland.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-30 00:03:13 UTC
Permalink
I think that you are very sure of yourself and feel like you're in your
backyard when you post to this NG. I also think that you're very direct and
that you don't think twice before sending a post.

But still, this newsgroup is an open place where everyone can come and read
your posts. Since you are a Borland representative, IMHO, what you write
here shows how Borland feels about their customers. If someone new comes
here (new to this group doesn't mean new to Borland) and reads your replies,
he could get the impression that Borland would rather push their customers
away then solve their problems.

I may have judged you wrong.
If this is the fact, I appologize.

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-30 00:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
I may have judged you wrong.
If this is the fact, I appologize.
Thank you for being willing to re-evaluate my participation here. I
appreciate it.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Brion L. Webster
2004-10-29 22:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Southwell
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Since you misunderstand my "attitude towards loyal Borland
customers" I don't think there's anything for me to reconsider.
You have to admit that you do often come across as very abrasive.
Those of us that know you know that you are under attack quite
often in this newsgroup and understand the curt or abrasive
replies, but for the newbie, I can understand the reaction.
For people who interpret "terse" as "abrasive", yes. John, Stefan
Hoffmeister, and others tend to be terse. It's a
regional/cutural/out of time difference. OTOH, if you're very nice
and verbose, some folks will feel upset because you're so effusive
and don't just get to the point.

No pleasing everyone.

Just for the record - I've been plenty annoyed by Borland and TeamB
folks myself - but I've always very much liked them when I've met
them in person.

-Brion
Jason Southwell
2004-10-29 23:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brion L. Webster
Just for the record - I've been plenty annoyed by Borland and TeamB
folks myself - but I've always very much liked them when I've met
them in person.
Agreed.
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-30 00:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brion L. Webster
Just for the record - I've been plenty annoyed by Borland and TeamB
folks myself - but I've always very much liked them when I've met
them in person.
I think that to some people, posting to newsgroups is not personal and they
don't feel like they are talking to real people when they write a post. So,
I think that posting a message to a newsgroup might be alienating to
someone, making them "not be themselves" when they write here.

Or, on the other hand, this is the real them, but when you meet them in
person, they just act nice, because they want to hide their real personality
;-)

As for me, if you meet me in person, I will be the same annoying guy I am
here, when posting to newsgroups :o)

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Pete Fraser
2004-10-30 13:07:57 UTC
Permalink
I was recently party to a rather heated email exchange which
was caused by misunderstanding in the first email.
People can get very emotional about email contents and things
can get out of hand. It ended with a face to face conversation
which sorted things out.
So we have to be very careful.
A guy I worked with had this phrase:
"Assumptions are the cause of a lot of mistakes" (well that's the sanitised,
internationalised version anyway)

Rgds Pete
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
Post by Brion L. Webster
Just for the record - I've been plenty annoyed by Borland and TeamB
folks myself - but I've always very much liked them when I've met
them in person.
I think that to some people, posting to newsgroups is not personal and they
don't feel like they are talking to real people when they write a post. So,
I think that posting a message to a newsgroup might be alienating to
someone, making them "not be themselves" when they write here.
Or, on the other hand, this is the real them, but when you meet them in
person, they just act nice, because they want to hide their real personality
;-)
As for me, if you meet me in person, I will be the same annoying guy I am
here, when posting to newsgroups :o)
Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-30 13:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete Fraser
"Assumptions are the cause of a lot of mistakes" (well that's the sanitised,
internationalised version anyway)
100% Agree.

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Derek Davidson
2004-10-31 10:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Since you misunderstand my "attitude towards loyal Borland
customers" ...
Yes. Him and many others John. Even you must get tired of trotting out
this trite line.

And do please stop trying to marginalize the original poster he's not
alone in his thoughts. You have a problem with the way you are
perceived. If you're not arrogant, blunt and rude then your posts do
you a dis-service. Deal with it and stop blaming others.
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Bob Dawson
2004-10-31 13:53:09 UTC
Permalink
[...] please stop trying to marginalize the original poster he's not
alone in his thoughts.
The original poster was Jennifer Ashley. John gave her a full reply that
D2005 works fine with .NET SP1.
If you're not arrogant, blunt and rude then your posts do
you a dis-service. Deal with it and stop blaming others.
John tends to be a bit terse, which actually I find quite understandable
given the way every word he says is poured over. I think once you understand
the conditions under which he is writing, any impression of arrogance or
rudeness goes away.

bobD
Derek Davidson
2004-10-31 16:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Dawson
[...] please stop trying to marginalize the original poster he's not
alone in his thoughts.
The original poster was Jennifer Ashley. John gave her a full reply
that D2005 works fine with .NET SP1.
There you have me. I was referring to the comments made by Danijel
Tkalcec but you're quite right that my use of the phrase 'original
poster' was misleading. Sorry about that.
Post by Bob Dawson
John tends to be a bit terse, which actually I find quite
understandable given the way every word he says is poured over. I
think once you understand the conditions under which he is writing,
any impression of arrogance or rudeness goes away.
That he gives the impression is not in doubt. This can only harm
Borland's interests. You'd think that either he, or perhaps one of his
line managers, should see that too and recommend that he either
ameliorate his presentation or refrain from posting.
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Don Siders
2004-10-31 18:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
Post by Bob Dawson
John tends to be a bit terse, which actually I find quite
understandable given the way every word he says is poured over. I
think once you understand the conditions under which he is writing,
any impression of arrogance or rudeness goes away.
That he gives the impression is not in doubt. This can only harm
Borland's interests. You'd think that either he, or perhaps one of his
line managers, should see that too and recommend that he either
ameliorate his presentation or refrain from posting.
I don't find John's presentation disturbing at all. I would suggest that you heed your own advice.

Oh wait... I have a kill fi
Bob Dawson
2004-10-31 17:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
That he gives the impression is not in doubt.
That he gives a bad impression to reasonable readers may certainly be
doubted.

Personally, I'd much prefer that he take the chance of offending someone
every once in a while than that he either disappeared, or turned all
sales-smarmy on us. I've relied on his advice on technical matters in the
past, and appreciate his directness and honesty. When a person asks a yes or
no question, I see no reason why a simple No answer isn't acceptable, and
that's what Danijel Tkalcec objected to.
Post by Derek Davidson
managers, should see that too and recommend that he either
ameliorate his presentation or refrain from posting.
I both hope and expect that they'll do nothing of the kind.

bobD
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-31 19:24:55 UTC
Permalink
When a person asks a yes or no question, I see no reason why a simple
No answer isn't acceptable, and that's what Danijel Tkalcec objected to.
The only reason for me objecting at that point was that I would expect at
least a short explanation. If I bought D8 and found it unusable, I would
expect a special discount on the next version, in case major problems were
not solved in the version I paid for. A short answer like "No." would sound
to me like:
"No way! I don't care the product you bought doesn't work. The new version
works and why shouldn't you pay the price again to get a working version?".
But, the person who received the answer (Thomas Miller) didn't object (he
actually took John's side after I have objected), so I may have judged John
Kaster (Borland) wrong.

Other than that, I read some other posts from John Kaster (Borland) and I
got the impression he was very sure of himself and looks to other posters
here from above, as though he owns this place and we're here just because he
let us. But, as I said allready, that impression might have been wrong and
he's actually a very nice guy, who's just having a bad day.

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Bob Dawson
2004-10-31 20:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
The only reason for me objecting at that point was that I would expect at
least a short explanation.
Of what? Why it wouldn't be a good idea to give everyone who said he wasn't
satisfied with D8 a $500 discount? I'd think the reasons for that rather
obvious: no one who bought it would be satisfied, whether he actually had
problems with the product or not.
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
expect a special discount on the next version, in case major problems were
Define 'major problem' in a workable manner here, remembering that no two
programmers use exactly the same feature set, in the same way, or with the
same amount of skill. Even a bug that might be an absolute showstopper to
one developer might be a mere annoyance to another, and never be triggered
by a third at all.

If practical, significant bugs should be addressed as updates--but never as
discount certificates.

bobD
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
2004-11-01 00:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danijel Tkalcec
When a person asks a yes or no question, I see no reason why a simple
No answer isn't acceptable, and that's what Danijel Tkalcec objected to.
The only reason for me objecting at that point was that I would expect at
least a short explanation. If I bought D8 and found it unusable, I would
expect a special discount on the next version, in case major problems were
not solved in the version I paid for.
Or you could have used the 30 day money back guarantee and get your money back.
You already had the option to return the product and decided not to. If it was
a broken as you claim it should have easily been noticeable within the first 30
days.
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects. (RAH)
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-11-01 07:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Or you could have used the 30 day money back guarantee and get your money back.
You already had the option to return the product and decided not to. If it was
a broken as you claim it should have easily been noticeable within the first 30
days.
It's all about customer sattisfaction, which creates customer loyalty. You
have a lot of loyal customers, because your customers were happy with how
you did bussiness in the past. And loyal customers don't ask for a refund,
they wait for the problem to get solved. But, this is only one side of the
story. The other side is ...

And if someone has invested years in developing his application using
Borland products (me, for example), which are not compatible with anything
else on the market (or is there an IDE and a compiler capable of compiling
existing Delphi projects, which doesn't come from Borland?), he can't afford
to throw that work away (return the tools and ask for a refund) just because
the first release doesn't work right. He hast to wait for the problems to
get solved.

Since it looks like Delphi 2005 has the problems from Delphi 8 solved, I
don't see why you wouldn't offer this upgrade with a big discount to ALL
customers who bought Delphi 8, no matter wether they had big problems with
Delphi 8 or not. In case someone bought Delphi 8 Architect (like my friend
did) and can't work with it (he can't even install it anymore), I don't
think he will be happy to hear that he has to pay another 2K $ for an update
to a working version (which, at the end, could also end up as the last one),
after waiting for months in hopes to get it running.

Being the only product of its kind on the market, you do have a monopolistic
position. Most people are simply forced to stick with Borland, no matter how
you treat them as customers. The only other solution would be to really
throw all the years of work aboard and start from scratch, using some tool
which is supported by more than one company.

I truly hope Borland will reconsider their update policy from Delphi 8 to
Delphi 2005, because a lot of customers are very unhappy with this situation
and from what I read, a lot of them are allready using M$ products to work
on their next projects, rather then waiting for Borland to repair Delphi 8.
Your marketing appartment seems to forget that in some cases, money isn't
everything.

But, after having said all of that, I realize that the discussion I was
having here wasn't about Borland policies, but only about expecting an
explanation on why the answer was "No". If you find something wrong with my
post, please ignore it as if I never wrote it. It's only me thinking aloud.
You can even call this post "wishfull thinking". I don't intend to start a
long discussion about policies and other stuff. My only intention was to say
what I would expect (or what I would do if I was Borland). As for me, I
didn't buy Delphi 8 (I'm still on Delphi 3 and quite happy about it), so I
don't really care if they give a huge discount for people updating from D8
to D2005.

PS. I won't be participating on a debate to this issue (Borland update
policies). Since this is an open newsgroup (more-or-less), I think that
everyone can state their oppinion. I said what I wanted to say and I don't
care if someone agrees with me or not. I don't intend to change anything
here. I'm just thinking aloud. If you want to debate with me, please E-Mail
me instead. No point in flooding this newsgroup.

Thanks!

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Derek Davidson
2004-11-01 08:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Or you could have used the 30 day money back guarantee and get your
money back. You already had the option to return the product and
decided not to. If it was a broken as you claim it should have
easily been noticeable within the first 30 days.
How long was it between the launch of D8 and the issuance of .NET 1.1
SP1? More than 30 days in any case.

The problem was Borlands but it didn't become apparent until sometime
after product launch. If Borland were to offer money back to customers
*now*, how many do you think would take up the offer? I'd say quite a
few.
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
2004-11-01 13:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
Post by Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Or you could have used the 30 day money back guarantee and get your
money back. You already had the option to return the product and
decided not to. If it was a broken as you claim it should have
easily been noticeable within the first 30 days.
How long was it between the launch of D8 and the issuance of .NET 1.1
SP1? More than 30 days in any case.
But he claims it was always unusable, not just since SP1. Also SP1 only affects
the compiler, not the end product. This can be worked around until Borland
releases a patch as Danny has already said they plan to do.
Post by Derek Davidson
The problem was Borlands but it didn't become apparent until sometime
after product launch. If Borland were to offer money back to customers
*now*, how many do you think would take up the offer? I'd say quite a
few.
No, Borland is going to offer a patch to fix the problem, but the problem was
severe enough to require a lot of resources to get a proper patch.
Post by Derek Davidson
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects. (RAH)
Captain Jake
2004-11-01 15:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
The problem was Borlands but it didn't become apparent until sometime
after product launch. If Borland were to offer money back to customers
*now*, how many do you think would take up the offer? I'd say quite a
few.
Which is why it is not going to happen, obviously.

Sometimes fate hands a company a real chance to prove themselves, such as
when the Tylenol murders happened. Most of the time the companies in
question do not rise to the occasion. I think the .NET service pack issue is
one of the latter.
Bob Dawson
2004-11-01 17:17:45 UTC
Permalink
[...] Most of the time the companies
in question do not rise to the occasion. I think the .NET service pack
issue is one of the latter.
Borland's promised a fix--while I would wish it to be quicker, I don't see
that they have to rise any further to this particular occasion.

bobD
Captain Jake
2004-11-01 22:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Dawson
[...] Most of the time the companies
in question do not rise to the occasion. I think the .NET service pack
issue is one of the latter.
Borland's promised a fix--while I would wish it to be quicker, I don't see
that they have to rise any further to this particular occasion.
It remains to be seen just how flaccid this response is.
Derek Davidson
2004-10-31 19:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Dawson
Personally, I'd much prefer that he take the chance of offending
someone every once in a while than that he either disappeared, or
turned all sales-smarmy on us.
Why does the opposite of offending someone have to be disappearing or
turning sales-smarmy? Couldn't he simply be polite?
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Danijel Tkalcec
2004-10-31 20:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
Why does the opposite of offending someone have to be disappearing or
turning sales-smarmy? Couldn't he simply be polite?
My point of view :-)
Being polite never hurt anyone.

Best Regards,
Danijel Tkalcec
Bob Dawson
2004-10-31 20:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Davidson
Why does the opposite of offending someone have to be disappearing or
turning sales-smarmy? Couldn't he simply be polite?
I didn't think his answer impolite in the least.

bobD
Captain Jake
2004-10-31 21:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Dawson
Post by Derek Davidson
managers, should see that too and recommend that he either
ameliorate his presentation or refrain from posting.
I both hope and expect that they'll do nothing of the kind.
I wholeheartedly second that sentiment.
--
***Free Your Mind***

Posted with JSNewsreader-BETA 0.9.4.331
Peter Herijgers
2004-10-27 22:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Miller
Would it be easier to give everyone what bought D8 and extra $500
discount for 90 days to upgrade to Diamond Back. Give it away
to those that bought Pro.
Your are just reding my mind.
D8 is terible.
Post by Thomas Miller
Would it be easier to give everyone what bought D8 and extra $500
discount for 90 days to upgrade to Diamond Back. Give it away
to those that bought Pro.
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Post by Jennifer Ashley Kuiper
Can I now safely install SP1 prior to installing D2005? (provided of
course I don't want to continue working with D8)
D2005 works w/ .NET 1.1 SP1. I'm using it and XP SP2 on my notebook.
Also, there *will* be a patch for D8 that resolves this issue as well.
As Danny has said, it is not a simplistic patch.
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
http://www.bss-software.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
Venkatesh VT
2004-10-28 05:32:01 UTC
Permalink
I read about car companies which have recalled entire batch of cars & replaced the defective parts free of cost.The reason they did was to avoid being sued & also realised that such measures will increase user confidence & incresed sales.These measures actually resulted in increased sales.
Hope Borland realises this fact & take appropriate measures.

I had used Borland products for number of years in office &
used up my retirement benifits & bought delphi 8 & recently updated my SA sp that i will get delphi 9.
How ever now i feel that i have made a mistake in putting blind faith in borland.I shoud have tried the trial edition first & seen the newsgroups before making any decision on a new product
Hope every one becomes wise after reading this
Venkatesh
Post by Peter Herijgers
Post by Thomas Miller
Would it be easier to give everyone what bought D8 and extra $500
discount for 90 days to upgrade to Diamond Back. Give it away
to those that bought Pro.
Your are just reding my mind.
D8 is terible.
"
Peter Herijgers
2004-10-28 08:03:42 UTC
Permalink
This is exactly what I am going to do.
Install the trail on multiple computers to check it out before I buy.

Although I am not very happy with the way Borland treads there customers.
I have a MSDN subscription so I think I am going to switch to Microsoft.
Microsoft is giving there developers a very good deal with there MSDN
subscriptions.

Maybe Borland can learn from them.

The problems with D8 and SP1 for .Net is also a very strange thing.
I think that Microsoft is very happy with all this bad news about Borland.
This is a way to gain more people to switch to Microsoft products.

Peter.
Post by Venkatesh VT
I read about car companies which have recalled entire batch of cars &
replaced the defective parts free of cost.The reason they did was to avoid
being sued & also realised that such measures will increase user
confidence & incresed sales.These measures actually resulted in increased
sales.
Hope Borland realises this fact & take appropriate measures.
I had used Borland products for number of years in office &
used up my retirement benifits & bought delphi 8 & recently updated my SA
sp that i will get delphi 9.
How ever now i feel that i have made a mistake in putting blind faith in
borland.I shoud have tried the trial edition first & seen the newsgroups
before making any decision on a new product
Hope every one becomes wise after reading this
Venkatesh
Post by Peter Herijgers
Post by Thomas Miller
Would it be easier to give everyone what bought D8 and extra $500
discount for 90 days to upgrade to Diamond Back. Give it away
to those that bought Pro.
Your are just reding my mind.
D8 is terible.
"
Colin Wilson
2004-10-27 09:19:49 UTC
Permalink
Also, there will be a patch for D8 that resolves this issue as well.
As Danny has said, it is not a simplistic patch.
I'm quite suprised that there aren't more complaints about this. D8
has been completely broken for, what, six weeks now?

Maybe not many people are actually using D8?
--
Colin - using XanaNews HTTP Transport
e-mail :***@wilsonc.demon.co.uk
web: http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm

Posted with XanaNews 1.16.5.1
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-27 09:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Wilson
Maybe not many people are actually using D8?
Maybe people who are actually saw the issue reported and are holding
off on that .NET patch.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Colin Wilson
2004-10-27 09:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kaster (Borland)
Post by Colin Wilson
Maybe not many people are actually using D8?
Maybe people who are actually saw the issue reported and are holding
off on that .NET patch.
Maybe. I would if I could. Unfortunately, where I work it's been
rolled out as part of corporate policy. No one there uses Delphi 8
except me, so I don't have much influence :(
--
Colin - using XanaNews HTTP Transport
e-mail :***@wilsonc.demon.co.uk
web: http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm

Posted with XanaNews 1.16.5.1
John Kaster (Borland)
2004-10-27 19:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Wilson
Unfortunately, where I work it's been
rolled out as part of corporate policy. No one there uses Delphi 8
except me, so I don't have much influence :(
We will get the patch out as fast as we can.
--
John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk
BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004
Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
What's going on? http://ec.borland.com/ec/index.faces
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
2004-11-09 00:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Wilson
Also, there will be a patch for D8 that resolves this issue as well.
As Danny has said, it is not a simplistic patch.
I'm quite suprised that there aren't more complaints about this. D8
has been completely broken for, what, six weeks now?
Maybe not many people are actually using D8?
Maybe not many people actually installing SP 1.1 despite the warning.
<g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
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